Funny noise

[paneuro]

Hi, I have a 2008 E61 530d and when I turn the engine off its like something venting air but only does it once. any ideas? Paneuro.

[paneuro]

Hi, can anybody say if there should be suction at the small pipe which connects to the EGR valve ? also at what revs does this suction begin? cheers Paneuro

[Greydog]

Morning Andrew

If you are hearing a hissing I would check the intercooler and all pipework as this where pressurised air is. It shouldn't retain pressure so the manifold pressure sensor needs checking. Diesels don't have a throttle valve as such engine speed is controlled by the amount of fuel entering the engine. My understanding is when you shut off the throttle valve closes for a few seconds reducing air flow the reopens relieving any pressure.

The suction from the vacuum pump is controlled by the pressure regulator which in turn receives signals from the EGR coolant thermostat the engine thermostat the MAP sensor MAT sensor and MAF. Information from those sensors is processed by the DDE and a signal tell's the pressure regulator to open the EGR to divert a small amount of exhaust gas to enter the inlet reducing NOx output to the exhaust and help charge cooling.

If your still chasing an EML either invest in a good BMW diagnostic program of your own and a Mukti Meter then you can accurately diagnose and check sensors for correct function before spending your hard earned cash. always check sensor looms for continuity as well as plugs and connectors. Many sensors have been changed only to find it is either a wiring issue or plug pin issue.

If you don't want to do that get a garage either BMW or a BMW Specialist to run the diagnostic check it will cost but probably less than constantly throwing money at it

Dave

 

 

[paneuro]

Hi Dave, with all due respect and I don't mean to be rude in any way. I have a multi meter and I would be delighted  to check all these sensors if I knew what I was looking for. Its of little use you telling me to check the sensors if you don't tell me what or how to check them.  Am I checking them for continuity? am I checking them for resistance? what resistance should they be ? etc. If I new that then I could come back and tell you my findings. Then we might be able to proceed to some sort of conclusion. I do have someone who can delete the EML never to return but I would rather get to the bottom of the problem and correct it. I am quite capable of removing the EGR altogether and getting it deleted but then how would my insurance company view that in the event of an accident?  I'm sorry if I have given you the wrong impression but cost is not the most important issue but I would like it to be realistic. I do appreciate your help. regards Paneuro

[Greydog]

Morning Andrew

Have you tried Google for the method's on how to test your sensors? It is what I do every time just to be sure I measure resistance on sensors across a range to see if the resistance cages on the loom side continuity if you can get to both ends if not ignition on and measure Voltage at the connector then check it against the parameters for that sensor (Google)

My point about the EML is not to have someone "put it" rather Proper Diagnostics will help find the cause. An inoperative EML is an MOT fail if you are not aware 

As for EGR delete the big issue is not so much with your insurers but with the car meeting emission's and smoke levels for MOT. There are many "Diesel Tuners" out there who advocate EGR delete and then DPF delete as the way forward, how ever if you have a diligent MOT Tester you could have a Fail on the car until they are reinstated. Bet the tuner won't pay fot that?

I have always owned petrol cars I have some experience of BMW straight six Diesel engines as my Brother Inlaw has owned 4 (current 535d) all have run to well over 200k before trading in for new with BMW. All his cars have been serviced by BMW with oil and filter changes on my drive every 5k when we do an oil change I run a diagnostic check and we have found very few issues even at high miles. Yes on the early cars we cleaned and changed EGR valves I removed swirl flaps on the early cars as well 

All his cars are ECU tuned (early cars over 300bhp) current car is close to 400bhp all still have DPF and EGR in place 

The main point is good Diagnostics will save you time but always remember the diagnostic give often a symptom you still need to test and check to find the cause.

Dave

[paneuro]

Hi, I had the diagnostics done and all he can tell me is it is EGR related!  If he knows more than that he is not letting on. He is probably hoping I will give him the job of fixing it and then he can make some serious money. I can't blame him for that as he is in business and has to earn a living.

I decided to have a go at checking the resistance of the oxygen sensor today after watching a few video's on U tube but when I disconnected it I discover it has 6 wires going in so it tried to find a wiring diagram for the plug. I did get a reading of 0.10 ohms between pin 1 and pin 5 if that makes sense to anybody? After trolling the internet for a couple of hours for a wiring diagram I eventually gave up. Maybe somebody on here will point me in the right direction. TIA Paneuro.

 

[Greydog]

Morning Andrew

When I first got my 4.4 X5 (2001) I didn't have the Diagnostic Software I do now but my "engineers need to know" still drives me so I paid for a Diagnostic session at the Dealer (only once ££££ dearer than the software) They did the scan and gave me a printout, of course suggesting the additional work that they thought needed doing (the car was 3 years old) I also use a BMW specialist who carried out a scan and provided a Print out which was a little more informative than the Dealer. So your garage is definitely lacking if you paid for a diagnostic and didn't supply a print out. 

If I recall your model has an O2 sensor Controller between the sensor and the DDE. The 6 wires you should have 2 white (these are normally O2 sensor Heater) the remaining 4 will give varying voltage depending on temperature range. Normally it is the heater circuit that fails this allows the engine to run rich which soots up the sensor, allows more soot into the EGR system etc etc 

So the Heater circuit measure resistance there are several Video's showing what to look for in Value. The other pairs produce a Voltage signal dependent on exhaust temperature (always use low 2v dc never put power back into the sensor or it will be scrap. As it heats up the differential between Ambient air temp and the Exhaust temp yours is two stage wide band I believe.

Hope these files help

Dave

 

BMW Advanced Diesel Service.pdf

[paneuro]

Hi Dave, I'm afraid I'll just have to go by the process of elimination. I appreciate you trying to help but 90% of what you are saying I don't understand. That other thing you sent has got about 120 pages and most of them are way beyond me . The diagram I can't read even with a magnifying glass. I checked the inlet manifold pressure sensor with my multi meter and when I start the car its showing 1.24 volts at idle and only goes up to 1.28 volts at 3000 revs so I've ordered a new inlet manifold pressure sensor so I'll see how that goes. In the meantime I'm going to take the manifold back of and go through the pipes again.

regards Paneuro.

[Greydog]

Sorry Andrew

Thought it might help 

Dave

[paneuro]

Hi Dave, no worries I do appreciate your efforts its just me having senior moments more often than not now. I had a good friend who was a computer whizz and he said I was one of the very few people he knew who could confuse a computer. If you do have any ideas that you think might be around my level then please feel free.

Regards Andy.

[Greydog]

Morning Andrew

You could buy something like the Foxwell handheld scanner cost would be about the same as a full diagnostic session at your friendly BMW Dealer. Or check Ebay for someone selling a ISTA/INPA set on a computer they do come up. That way with either you just have to plug it into the car and turn it on.

Dave

[paneuro]

Hi Dave, thanks for that I will have a look around and see what they can do. regards Andy

[paneuro]

Hi Dave, I had a look at Foxwell and their stuff looked reasonably priced. I was unable to find anywhere that gave me much information about what level of diagnostics the different models were capable of, well none I could understand that is. I did however have a look on Trust pilot and the reviews about them as a company are diabolical. I got a new manifold pressure sensor and fitted it but still have EML. Regards Andy.

[Greydog]

Morning Andy 

Look at iCarsoft scanners V1 or 2 if your put off Foxwell (I have no personal experience of either as I use laptop based software)

If you haven't already, take a look at www.realoem.com put the last 7 digits of your Vin into the search box it will bring up your model the look in the exhaust section (small Drawings should help) Look for a drawing of the DPF on top of the DPF you should see 3 sensors in a line, a temperature sensor, an O2 sensor and another temperature sensor.

If you have an issue with the O2 sensor or either of the temperature sensors you will det an EML light. The engine will run rich which will cause EGR issues. 

My bet is that it is an issue with one of these when looking at the drawing scroll down to the part number section so if you have to purchase you get the right one in the right place. Google multi meter tests there are probably video's to help.

Dave

[paneuro]

Morning Dave, I have the EGR off again and stood it in strong degreaser all overnight being careful not to submerge the diaphragm part. I have also ordered a Vacuum tool so I can test all the pipes.  If the car is running there is no suction whatsoever no matter what revs the engine is doing so I need to find out why. I will have a look at Carsoft  scanners as I certainly need to get something more in depth than Carly. Let you know how it goes. Thanks Andy

[Greydog]

If there is no Vacuum you will have awful brakes? Press the pedal then start the engine you should feel a difference in pedal effort. 

Where are you checking vacuum? If it is at the EGR then there are several parameters that the DDE needs to see from various sensors before it sends a signal to the pressure regulator

With my sons Toyota the Soot was so hard even after soaking we had to use a screw driver and a hammer to chip it away amazing how much crud was there and how hard it was. Once we cleaned it out we soaked it in petrol and cleaned it gain and checked it worked freely. We also cleaned the inlet as it dawned on me it was as bad as the EGR

Dave

[paneuro]

Hi Dave, it was the pipe going to the EGR valve I was looking for suction and got none. I fitted a new pressure regulator but still no suction so I found a video on u tube on how to test the pressure regulator. I followed the instructions and the old one would appear to be faulty as it did not give the same results as per the video. With reference to the brakes they would appear to be perfect but I think I should start at the vacuum pump and work from there. Its a bit difficult to get the car up to temperature when the inlet manifold is on the bench. I don't know why BMW have to hide everything under it, I have even had to drain the coolant and remove a pipe to get at most of these rubber pipes.  Also is there anywhere I can find a list of all these abbreviations like DDE , PCM etc and what they mean?  Regards Andy

[Greydog]

Morning Andy

When you fitted your "new" pressure regulator was it new (in the box) or used ?

Here is a list hope it helps

 

BMW Terms Acronyms and Abbreviations.odt

[paneuro]

Morning Dave, the valve was new in the box!  My god I never dreamt there was so many abbreviations, I won't be trying to learn these, I'll just refer to the list. 

Thanks for that. Andy.

[Greydog]

There will be a test later so sharpen your pencil 🤣 If you want a really long list I could send you the full Fault code list 

If it was new then it should be working OK my bet would be it isn't being activated 

Dave

 

[paneuro]

Hi Dave, I left school at fifteen , that was 63 years ago so don't think a test is for me, to many senior moments. Don't laugh they'll come to you to. 

I may have made a breakthrough, fingers crossed. I have removed the manifold once more and when I had a good look at the swirl flap actuator and vacuum solenoid I noticed where the ingoing vac pipe enters the solenoid the spigot pipe had been glued in, looks like araldite. I removed the solenoid and tried sucking the vac pipe. I found I could both blow air and suck air through this pipe. I then powered it up with 12 volts and it was just the same so I'm thinking it will not hold a vacuum. I tried sucking the small pipe which joins the solenoid to the swirl flap actuator and it was operating as it should (turning the swirl flap rod)! what do you think? Regards Andy. P.S whoever removed the swirl flaps must have broken the pipe and glued it.

[Greydog]

Morning Andy

Whoop Whoop that sounds logical, sadly because the early BMW swirl flap system was (only one word really) Rubbish and many vars were wrecked by swirl flaps being ingested many owners removed the swirl flaps themselves. Unfortunately some of those owners were clumsy oafs, you appear to have the evidence 

As for senior moments we are the same age !! I just blame mine on the alcohol 😂🤣

Dave

[paneuro]

Morning Dave, I to could blame MR Smirnof for my lapses. Would you say I should remove everything, rod, actuator, solenoid and block the vac pipe and just tape the 12 volt supply or buy a new solenoid and put it back as it was? cheers Andy. P.S. I did try and send a pic of the solenoid but its on my phone and I don't know how to post pics on here.

[Greydog]

Hi Andy

I would first block the Vac line to the solenoid, that way if other control need a confirmation signal from the swirl flap solenoid then they still get it. If all runs OK and your back to "normal" no faults or lights, you have a choice unplug the solenoid if it has no effect remove it or just leave it where it is.

Dave

[paneuro]

Morning Dave, that sounds like a plan. I got the hand vacuum tool yesterday so I will do a bit of testing the rest of the pipes and then proceed with replacing the manifold and fingers crossed. I will let you know how it goes. cheers Andy,