Changing from s type v6 3.0 petrol...

[Millertime]

Hi all, looking at a BMW to move from my 3 litre s type. 

I LOVE the jag, but the 55 a month road tax and 17 mpg is killing me!

I think I have narrowed it down to a 320d with m sport styling

Can anyone tell me if there's anything I should look for, ie, timing chains being done? From what I was looking at, 07/09 versions had issues?

Am I right to be looking at the 3 series, or should it be the 5?

Really appreciate any advice, thanks!

[Greydog]

Morning Frankie

Welcome to the Forum

17 mpg from a 3.0 Jag yikes !! My big fat X5 V8 4.6is averages just under 19 around town mid/high  20's on a run including towing a couple of fat horses in a trailer.

As with any used car History History History don't forget MOT history always a good indication of how well looked after the car has been 

Around 2006/7 BMW moved the timing chain to the rear of the engine (supposedly maintenance free) early engines either failed quickly (in warranty) or some seemed to last it took 4 years for BMW to acknowledge the issue and get on top of it. 2011 onwards cars seem much better. Make sure everything works as it should if it doesn't and the seller gives the old excuses of "you can get that for a few ££ on Ebay" or AC just needs a recharge walk away there are plenty out there. If fixes were that easy why haven't they done it, two answers in my mind 1. they had a quote and it scared them, 2. they just don'y care about their cars.

Check the tyres carefully for odd wear an indication of wearing bushes in the suspension. Last thing you need is to be spending your hard earned a few weeks or months after purchase.

Fuel wise our son inlaw has a 32d touring on a 65 plate he averages in the 40's with mixed driving and a heavy right foot

Don't dismiss the 2.5 and 3.0d engines loads of grunt and still capable of mid 30's around town and high 40's on a run. Plus they will feel as powerful (maybe more so) as your Jag particularly mid range. My brother inlaw is now on hi 4th 5 Touring all have been 3.0d variants he travels a lot and all have gone beyond 200k. His current car 540d xdrive touring with ECU tune is over 400hp and still gives mid 40mpg 

Last but not least beware of "modified cars" EGR delete DPF delete seem most common just remember that under current MOT regulations if it had these as part of the emissions control at build time an MOT Tester can fail them instantly if they are not fitted now.

Dave

 

[Millertime]

45 minutes ago, Greydog said:

Morning Frankie

Welcome to the Forum

17 mpg from a 3.0 Jag yikes !! My big fat X5 V8 4.6is averages just under 19 around town mid/high  20's on a run including towing a couple of fat horses in a trailer.

As with any used car History History History don't forget MOT history always a good indication of how well looked after the car has been 

Around 2006/7 BMW moved the timing chain to the rear of the engine (supposedly maintenance free) early engines either failed quickly (in warranty) or some seemed to last it took 4 years for BMW to acknowledge the issue and get on top of it. 2011 onwards cars seem much better. Make sure everything works as it should if it doesn't and the seller gives the old excuses of "you can get that for a few ££ on Ebay" or AC just needs a recharge walk away there are plenty out there. If fixes were that easy why haven't they done it, two answers in my mind 1. they had a quote and it scared them, 2. they just don'y care about their cars.

Check the tyres carefully for odd wear an indication of wearing bushes in the suspension. Last thing you need is to be spending your hard earned a few weeks or months after purchase.

Fuel wise our son inlaw has a 32d touring on a 65 plate he averages in the 40's with mixed driving and a heavy right foot

Don't dismiss the 2.5 and 3.0d engines loads of grunt and still capable of mid 30's around town and high 40's on a run. Plus they will feel as powerful (maybe more so) as your Jag particularly mid range. My brother inlaw is now on hi 4th 5 Touring all have been 3.0d variants he travels a lot and all have gone beyond 200k. His current car 540d xdrive touring with ECU tune is over 400hp and still gives mid 40mpg 

Last but not least beware of "modified cars" EGR delete DPF delete seem most common just remember that under current MOT regulations if it had these as part of the emissions control at build time an MOT Tester can fail them instantly if they are not fitted now.

Dave

 

Dave, wow. Thanks for going to the effort of explaining all of that!

The mileage of these on ebay for example is a little scary, I seen one at over 240k miles..!

But as you say if they have been looked after, the engines can obviously handle that

The big thing for me too was the road tax being 30 a year, I take it the 2.5 and 3.0 push the road tax up?

Thanks again

[Greydog]

Morning

Yes the tax for the bigger engines is higher if I recall my Brother inlaws 530d was £180 (have to check) but with it ECU tuned he had an Estate that could scare the pant's off some serious sports cars (not that he would ever do that !! 🤣) and still return high 40's on a run. So depending on your budget and space needed in the car don't dismiss the 1 series a friend of one of our sons has a 2005 118d 5 door he has a young family (2 children) and a fat Labrador all 5 of them fit comfortably and a roof box takes care of luggage when they go away.

If looking at high milers say 150k up then in my experience the poor old gearbox and Diff's tend to be the bit that gets forgotten. Engines get regular oil and filter changes but rarely do people change Gearbox Fluids and filters or Diff oil so check carefully in the paper work for evidence. If you like the car but are unsure about the gearbox and diff suspension etc to DIY I would think around £500 would fund all the parts to service suspension and drive train if using a Garage about £1000 to £1100 so that would be a negotiation point for me.

Dave

[Millertime]

Which year was it that the timing chain was moved to the back of the engine please?

And is that relevant for the 2, 2.5 and 3l engines?

Thank you

[Greydog]

Morning Frankie

All mechanical stuff wears out at some point that is a fact

BMW designers decided that they would design the Timing chain system to be "maintenance free" !!! Why a supposedly clever engineer would think that is beyond this old engineer. BMW like many other manufacturers  had moved towards Plastic guides in an effort to reduce internal friction to achieve more efficient engines why would they think these would be maintenance free?? Timing chain maintenance isn't cheap or quick on any engine. 

Short answer to your question is from early 2007 N47 4 cylinder and M47 6 cylinder engines had the chains at the rear of the block. From what I have read  most failures seem to have happened between 2007 and 2011, later cars seem much better as do those that were repaired so history is important. My old "engineers head" combines not just the moving of the timing chains with extended oil change regimes that don't help. With our family cars and my brother inlaws oil services are every 8 to 10k which means every 2 or 3 months for my brother in law his 4, 5 series touring have all covered huge mileages without issue 

If the car has a good history and is quiet in operation (hot or cold) and its what you want negotiate hard and get what you want and enjoy it

Dave

[Millertime]

27 minutes ago, Greydog said:

Morning Frankie

All mechanical stuff wears out at some point that is a fact

BMW designers decided that they would design the Timing chain system to be "maintenance free" !!! Why a supposedly clever engineer would think that is beyond this old engineer. BMW like many other manufacturers  had moved towards Plastic guides in an effort to reduce internal friction to achieve more efficient engines why would they think these would be maintenance free?? Timing chain maintenance isn't cheap or quick on any engine. 

Short answer to your question is from early 2007 N47 4 cylinder and M47 6 cylinder engines had the chains at the rear of the block. From what I have read  most failures seem to have happened between 2007 and 2011, later cars seem much better as do those that were repaired so history is important. My old "engineers head" combines not just the moving of the timing chains with extended oil change regimes that don't help. With our family cars and my brother inlaws oil services are every 8 to 10k which means every 2 or 3 months for my brother in law his 4, 5 series touring have all covered huge mileages without issue 

If the car has a good history and is quiet in operation (hot or cold) and its what you want negotiate hard and get what you want and enjoy it

Dave

Again, top man thank you 

I dont use the car much as I work from home,  so I never spend much on them up front and I've had a varied mix of cars!

Mg zts,  a Ford capri, a discovery 2 snd the jag, so it would be one at about the £3k mark

I spent a lot of time last night researching it and got the bejeezus scared out of me with some of the forum stories about these timing chains

Excuse my ignorance, but the n and m47 engines with the chain at the back, that's the 2 and 3 litre diesels then?

Part of me does wonder whether this though is just a classic example of "you only hear from the 0.1% of people with a problem, not the 99.9% who were delighted!)

The only older 3 series cars then,  diesel, with the chain at the front in my price range will be 2006 and before?

Thanks again

[Greydog]

You are right about the N47 and M47 engines you are also quite correct that when you consider the thousands sold world wide the issue was relatively small. My brother inlaw has a business base in Holland and travels all over Europe his first 530d covered just under 300k he then traded it in at his BMW Dealer for the 535d same sort of miles covered then another 535d which went beyond the 300k and now a 540d if they are maintained they are really tough engines just don't do the dealer thing of 30+k between services as that could be a couple of years ??

My local BMW specialist recons to change the Timing chain and guides around £1000 his opinion is that timing chains should be serviced on all cars at around 100k 

Dave