X5 Xdrive 40e HybridGearbox rough

[RodG]

Hello all.

Ive noticed that after my 2016 X5 40e warms up the gear change is jerky.  When running at a constant throttle the car feels rough as if I was driving over a corrugated surface or I had a twisted wheel rim. The rims are fine so it looks like a slipping clutch maybe ?

It happens both in auto and if I select manual tiptronic.

Its a high milage car -192,000Km/ 120Kmiles

I'm looking at changing the transmission oil but various youtube vids suggest that this might cause other issues.

Value body service is a further option.

Any thoughts or suggestions ?

Thanks

R

 

 

[Greydog]

Morning Rod

BMW used to tell owners "Gearbox is Sealed for Life" in fact what they mean is the normal 60k/3years Warranty responsibility 

ZF who make the boxes recommend service at 60 - 100k/km at 190k/km I would find a ZF specialist and get them to look at it. They can run a full diagnostic on the box and give you a better feel for whats going on.

Get the gearbox mounts checked I have seen a failed mount which gave odd behaviour

Dave

[RodG]

Hi Dave.

Thanks for the insight and the sound advice.

There's a guy in Dublin that I used before when I had a problem with my E70 X5 and he was good. (Autotranz)

I'm hoping a flush will fix it.

 

 

 

 

[RodG]

Just to update the situation on my X5 hybrid,  I did a transmission fluid and filter change but the fault still remains. 

Jerky gear change on auto, manual,electric power and petrol power.

Next step will be to put a bi-directional scanner on the car and maybe do some data logging.

[Greydog]

Morning Rod

Is it all changes or just 1 or 2 ? Thinking sticking solenoid, try a tube of "Dr Tranny" I have known it work on several cars with change issues

Dave

 

[RodG]

Hello Dave.

Once she's warmed up, its all changes.  And, while driving with a steady throttle, I get this jerking as if the gear was slipping and then catching.  The effect is continuous, with a frequency of, maybe once per second,or perhaps once every  two seconds.

I took the car to a ZF guy and he said he'd never seen that kind of thing before.  Offered to strip the box for around  €5K.

I'm going to sound out several other transmission specialists in the hope that one of them might have seen the fault before,

I don't want to visit BMW if I can help.  They'll just try to sell me a new gearbox.

I've ordered a scanning tool in the hope that it will find something.

I'll lookup Dr. Tranny.  (Wonder if he does house calls )? 😉

[Greydog]

When you get the scanner on the car check for Torque converter faults 

Ha Ha Dr Tranny sorry no house calls but it really does work one of our sons friends was quoted a new box in his ! series by BMW and like you a Tranny specialist offered to rebuild his box for a silly number. He asked me what I thought of Dr Tranny and I confess at that time I had never heard of it, his symptoms were harsh/hard changes up and down the box his car had covered 80k at the time. I plugged it in and could only find fault codes for the Torque converter and 2 solenoids, we changed the fluid and filter (no debris even the fluid was fairly clean) he tried it and still had the change issues put in the Dr Tranny and next day he had a big smile on his face reporting everything OK. November last year at 155k we changed the gearbox fluid and filter again and put in another tube of Dr Tranny. I have used it on several cars belonging to friends and family plus my own E53 4.6is (164k) 

So it may be worth trying

Dave

 

[RodG]

Morning Dave.

Thanks for the expanding on that Dr.Tranny stuff.  I'll have to look up how it works.

If the problem turns out to be a solenoid or two, then I'd be really happy.

I ordered a Launch CReader Elete for BMW.  It gets gets reviews from BMWDoctor and others. ( I wonder if he studied with Dr. Tranny).  Its due to arrive this week after I paid the outstanding VAT.

In the meantime I'll do that reset trick on the transmission and throttle memory ( Hold the throttle down for 5 sec and 10 sec etc).

I'll post and updates that might help others with a similar issue.

Thke care,

Rod

 

[Greydog]

I have BMW INPA/ISTA plus BMW 1.4.0 (for early models) so same level of access as the Dealers have. I have heard of Launch but not used it.

Just an after thought have you checked the gearbox mount I have known a failed gearbox mount cause odd gearbox behaviour, seen it on 2 cars a 535d Touring and an X6, the X6 actually had a rusted mount??

Lets hope what ever it is it isnt a wallet buster

Dave

 

[RodG]

When she was upon the ramp my mechanic gave the drive shaft and mounts a good looking over.  He even suggested I check for twisted wheel rims,but its not that king of vibration.

 

[RodG]

Hello Dave.

Happy Easter.

I've ordered a tube of Dr Tranny ( what a name...)

Are there any rules about adding it to the transmission - e.g. gearbox must be cold?

Rod

[Greydog]

Morning Rod 

It helps if the box is cold as warm/hot fluid expands and you will need a catch tray for any dribbles (guess how I learned that) 

I let a little fluid out at the drain plug about half a litre tighten up then Dr Tranny in and top up. Then run the engine and go through the normal gearbox checks to get everything circulating.

Good Luck

Dave

This the only additive (snake oil remedy) I have used that actually seems to work

[RodG]

Thanks Dave.

The Launch CReader arrived and I hooked it up to see what it finds.

Nothing gearbox/transmission related, but some other stuff- fuel pressure sensor and a couple more.

I kind of hoped it would flag up a solenoid or something similar, but  we are where we are.

Maybe the good doctor will do the trick.

Rod

[Greydog]

👍👍 Fingers crossed, after thought has the transfer box been checked?

Dave

[RodG]

I  hope  to get access to a ramp at the pace where I used to work. They have a motor mechanics apprenticeship course running.  Is there anything externally,that I should lookout for when I'm under the car. ?

[RodG]

I  just searched youtube for X5 transfer case and there's a lot of good stuff.  The symptoms described by the youtubers sound similar to what I'm experiencing.  I  suppose a replacement transfer case might be cheaper than a gerarbox rebuild?

[Greydog]

Replacement or Repair the Transfer Case fluid is worth checking first. (if topping up make sure it is right for your case) Also check the Actuator on the side of the transfer case (looks like a windscreen wiper motor) the nylon gears are a common fail and easy change. 

Like just about all 4 wheel drives incorrect tyres can cause Transfer case damage by transmission wind up really quickly. I have seen an X3 with transfer case issues a week after after the front tyres were changed due to odd wear. The rolling radius front to rear was just to much 

Dave

[RodG]

Thanks again, Dave.

I'll have the transfer box looked at and give it an oil change.  Might get the oil in the front diff done as well. I don't see any record of it ever having been done. ( Which means that the rear diff is probably overdue as well 😞 ).

The issue with the tires got me worrying.  I recently replaced the rear set with some Chinese brand of the correct size. I watched an Australian bloke do some measurements on various brands, and there seems to be a bit of variation between brands.

[Greydog]

Hi Rod

The X3 I put a chalk mark at the bottom of the front and rear tyres and the road then rolled it forward one revolution until the rear tyre mark was at the bottom again the front was around 20mm away so over a few miles ?? The variation is not just between brands even between batches and new and worn tyres. BMW and Mercedes tend to fit Staggered wheel sets (wider rear) and have deals with their chosen tyre suppliers who supply * rated tyres that are very close in rolling radius. I have a very helpful Tyre Dealer locally who is prepared to put sets together 275x40x20 fronts and 315x35x20 and check them side by side. Current set on my E70 are Accura and 5k in no issues. Range Rover tend to use same size rims front and rear and there seems less issues with this set up 

Dave

PS. If it is tyre related make sure thats sorted first or your Transfer case will be toast again

[RodG]

Hi Dave.

The sizes are correct and conform to the original spec of the car, i.e. F 275x40x20 and R 315x35x20.

The only difference is that I put cheapo brand tires on the rear. Could the car be that sensitive to tire variation?

Hope to talk to a mechanic tomorrow about fluid chance in the transfer box and maybe the front diff.

 

 

[Greydog]

Morning Rod 

Unfortunately yes they can be I have read many cases over the years where only 6mm difference between front and rear tyres can cause issues with the transfer case. 

I would do the chalk mark test just to be sure

Dave

[RodG]

Will do.

Thanks again.

[RodG]

Update:

Following Dave's suggestion that I look at the transfer box as the source of my problems, dropped  the car into a transmission specialist.  He scanned to car and no faults were logged.  He checked the fluid in the transfer box and noticed some metal in the oil.

He's going to drop the transfer box and test it further and if it  can be repaired then well-and-good, otherwise its a new one to be shipped in from The Netherlands.  (Would have been the UK but brexit.... etc.,etc.,).

He cautioned  me against looking for a used box from a scrapyard - not worth the risk, soby the end of next week I should be on the road again.

I've asked his to change the oil in both diffs while he's at it - in for a penny....

 

[Greydog]

Hi Rod

There is a guy in Manchester area (Bolton if the old grey matter is working) who rebuilds Transfer cases as a Business might be worth a Google search I know he did a lot of business through the Xdrivers forum a few years back. 

Metal in the oil sounds like the main chain is stretched not as horrendous as it sounds I rebuilt a Transfer box a couple of years ago parts were less than £200 chain gaskets and seals including a new Nylon gear. Getting the box on the bench without a ramp was the awkward bit 😆 needed help from a younger more bendy assistant

Fingers Crossed for the rebuild

Dave

[RodG]

Hi Dave.

Well, the car is with the transmission guy so I just have to sit here and wait !

I could have really used that car this weekend -  I was invited to a party down in Kilkenny city ( about 75miles away),but I just couldn't trust it to hold together for the round trip.

I'm in the hands of the ZF gods now, and I don't think they're merciful gods...

Rod