E87 N47 116D 2011 - ENGINE HESITATION.

[BigZed]

Hi, I am new to the forum and have just aquired this E87, as a stop gap motor.

 

 

Symptoms.

1. From cold start.
   1. Motor starts easily and will tick over smoothly.
   2. Pull away in first with throttle  1/8 depressed, then into second at say 1500-2000rpm, same throttle and gear change to third.
   3. Engine stutters at limited throttle opening, but sometimes clears itself with a little more throttle.
   4. These symptons continue for first 20-30 seconds and then the engine is smooth for the rest of the journey.
2. From warm start
   1. Intermittently (1 in 10) same symtoms as cold start.

 

I have run a diagnostics scan and have  4x EGR faults, and 2xMAF ( see below)

40E9: 40E9 exhaust gas recirculation control, position control
4B81: 4B81 Exhaust gas recirculation rate control, control deviation
4B82: 4B82 Exhaust gas recirculation rate control, control deviation
4933: 4933 air system, air to EGR mass flow plausibility

3FF0: 3FF0 air mass meter
3FF1: 3FF1 air mass meter

 

Iam guessing that either the EGR and MAF sensor or both need cleaning / replacing. I am thinking to work on the EGR fault first, as this may be triggering the MAF fault.

Am I going about this in the righr way, or does anyone have any comments or suggestions as to the cause of the symptoms and error codes, and any remedies or aditional fault finding tips.

 

[Greydog]

Morning Paul

Welcome to the Forum

You are on the money the EGR would be my starting point check  all the hoses as well often they are clogged and get missed. Also worth checking the inlet manifold I have seen them full of soot 

Test the exhaust sensors as well 

I did the clean on a friend of our son's 120d we spent most of a Saturday cleaning everything they took it for a test drive on the bypass and they came back howling with laughter, apparently when he floored it on the bypass there was a huge black cloud left behind they said it looked like a special effect from a Harry Potter film 🤣

Good Luck with the Clean

Dave

[BigZed]

Morning Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

1. My engine has the electronic EGR valve, is there any tips on how to clean and check this properly.
2. You mention hoses, I believe there are only 2 hoses on this egr for the egr cooler, are you refering to these getting clogged?, I am not aware of any other hoses on the EGR circuit, they are all solid metal pipework.
3. Will inspect the air intake manifold aswell.
4. Exhaust sensor?, Are you refering to the Lambda Sensor. I did noyt get an error code on this.
5. Was the black cloud all the dislodged soot from the clean, and was this an one off.

Paul.

[Greydog]

Hi Paul

Yes the EGR cooler hoses and sometimes the cooler it's self, on the top of the DPF you should have an exhaust pressure sensor if it is acting up it can give all sorts of strange symptoms. There are a few good Videos online showing cleaning methods that should help.

If you aren't aware you can check on www.realoem.com what is there and where stuff fits the small exploded drawing can be really helpful in knowing where bits go

Dave

[BigZed]

Hi Dave,

Finally got a chance to clean the EGR valve and MAF sensor over the bank holiday, and cleared all the codes related to them.

However the cars symptoms are still the same. but non of the above codes re-appeared.

Whilst doing the removal of the EGR valve I noticed that the DPF pressure sensor hose was sheared at the DPF , and the hose was still connected at the other end  to the sensor, however this end of the hose looks like reinforeced garden hose, and I believe is someones previous attempt at a fix. The small amount of hose attached the the dpf is different to this a appears to look like original hose. I am now in possession of BMW original spec part # 13628591459 hose and will be working on replacing the broken hose this week.

The fault codes I am left with are #1 & #3 glow plugs, which I dont believe are the issue related to the hesitation ( as I dont think its cold enough at the moment) and the brake servo sensor fault which is giving a warning on the dash for the start / stop fault.

I have the replacement brake servo sensor which I will be replacing after I have done the dpf pressure sensor hose.

Fingers crossed one or both of these are causing the hesitation.

I will be doing the glow plugs as well after this, as we will be heading into winter soon. to clear all fault codes and eliminate these from the quation.

As always, any tips or suggestions as to the cause of these symptoms, are always welcome.

 

Paul.

[Greydog]

Morning Paul

Good find with the DPF sensor just the servo sensor to go 

With the Glow Plugs as your in there change them all and the controller. They don't effect starting while ambient temperatures are as they are, they are important though as they are used to boost combustion temperatures during a Regeneration Phase. If you use the car on Motorways or Main Dual Carriageways probably less so, but if your driving is mainly short local journeys they become important

Dave

[BigZed]

OK, so I managed to insall the new dpf pressure sensor hose, which I thought would be a 10 minute job, but turned into a 2 1/2 hour fight. The hose clip on the dpf is a b*tch to get to, to undo and tighten.☹️

I also changed the brake servo vaccuum sensor, took about 20 minutes, with a thin long shafted flat blade screwdriver and a medium length pry bar. Auto start /stop fault warning on dash and fault code eliminated. 😁

Now an update on the symptoms.

Ignition on, Engine off.

1. 4A4E glow plug cylinder 3,control
2. 4A6E glow plug cylinder 1,control

Ignition on, Engine running

1. 4A4E: glow plug cylinder 3,control
2. 4A6E: glow plug cylinder 1,control
3. 40E9: exhaust gas recirculation control, position control
4. 4B81: Exhaust gas recirculation rate control, control deviation

Test runs - No load, vehicle static.

1. Starts on the button first time (hot or cold)
2. idles smoothly (hot or cold) , short or long running times.
3. freely revs, short or continuous pedal depressions.

Test runs - Engine under load, pulling away or moving.

1st test run. single stutter on pulling away, and a 8 mile drive without issues, even though the same error codes were recorded at end of journey.

2nd test run

1. Pulling away - engine starts to stutter and losses power, blue / grey  smoke from exhaust and engine bay.
2. Moving complete loss of power, stuttering, no throttle response, blue / grey  smoke from exhaust , smoke clears when off throttle.
3. No EML on dash, and same error codes.

So it would appear that the symptoms have worsened and the drivability of the car is now non existant.

BTW - I am using Bimmerlink as the diagnostics tool.

Where do I go from here, Back to the EGR valve and cooler ?

[Greydog]

Morning Paul

First the Glow Plug issue should only become a problem below -5C or inhibit Regen if the engine can't generate enough internal heat

40E9: exhaust gas recirculation control, position control

4B81: Exhaust gas recirculation rate control, control deviation

This is where the detective work begins there still could be an issue with the DPF sensor even though you have changed the pipe also check the Map sensor. Check realoem for the location of any pipes steel or Flexible and make sure they are clear 

Good Luck

Dave

 

[BigZed]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

If there was an issue with the DPF sensor, wouldnt that have an error code?, I did think it strange that the broken dpf sensor hose didnt show a fault code.

How do you suggest I test the dpf and maf sensors?

Paul.

[BigZed]

FYI,

 

 

The dpf sensor hose I replaced was #4, and there appears to be 2 exhaust sensors #3 and #5.

#5 appears to be for exhaust back pressure.

[Greydog]

Hi

You can check with a multi meter at the sensor plug first find the power feed I use a pin to probe for voltage to earth. With the meter connected you should see the the voltage change as exhuast back pressure builds if not change the sensor. Similar test for the MAP sensor normally voltage fluctuates between 0 and 5v as prssure changes. Check You Tube there are some good Videos there

Changed both on an N47 2.0d for a friend of our son last year from memory they were about £15 each from a local Auto Factor

The fact you were getting Blue Grey smoke would make me look at the MAP sensor as that effects Fueling

Good Luck

Dave

[BigZed]

Hi Dave,

I have used a different diagnostics tool ( Bimmer tool) interesting to note that the fault code 3FF0 is shown, and the description of 40E9 states exhaust gas return controller. ( The bimmerlink tool has the same codes as before}

Also the live data is showing a huge difference between the actual and expected air mass reading.

Is there anything here which may narrow down the search for a solution?

BTW - You mention checking the MAP sensor, is this different from the MAF sensor, and if so do you know where is it located?

Thanks,

Paul.

[Greydog]

Morning Paul

Never used that system but it is giving you much clearer information. 3FF0 is the MAF 40E9 is the EGR not opening or closing correctly 

The MAF (Mass Airflow Sensor) measurs volume of air The MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure) is normally on the inlet manifold (sometimes called Charge Air Sensor) realoem should help with location

Check Google for test parameters and methods, remember fault codes are not always the cause but a symptom so test the plugs and wiring looms as well. I have seen a few MAF plugs with damaged wiring over the years where heavy handed folks have used the wiring to pull out the plug 

Dave

[BigZed]

Hi Dave,

Heres what I found when testing the MAP and MAF sensors.

MAP sensor

1. Found constant voltage wire, and ground wire on the 3 wire plug from harness with mutimeter with ignition on.
2. Back probed the plug on the signal and ground wire at got approx. 1v with engine running.
3. No increase in voltage with increase of revs which was difficult due to the stuttering of engine with exhaust smoke in engine bay.

MAF sensor

1. Found constant voltage on red wire (pin 1)  on the 4 wire plug from harness with mutimeter with ignition on.
2. Could not find a ground in the plug.
3. The remaining 3 wires were all live with 3.5v on brown (pin 2), 5v on both grey (pin 3) and yellow/black (pin 4) wires.
4. With the ignition off No ground in harness plug on pin 2.
5. No point in back probing as no ground.

The issue with the MAF sensor harness wiring is worrying, I guess this maybe an ECU ( expensive ) issue.

Any ideas on how to proceed.

Thanks.

Paul.

[BigZed]

Its interesting to note that the ECU (A2249) pin 31 comes from Voltage supply Position sensor, EGR valve

So mybe I should be relooking at the EGR valve and wiring harness and connections.

[Greydog]

Morning Paul

Great progress matey, as I said I have seen several MAF sensor looms damaged most the damage is close to the MAF end as many "mechanics" use the loom to pull it out (even in a Dealers). All have been repairable with a soldering Iron and shrink wrap. BMW actually do a number of repair looms worth checking if there are any available. Certainly check the EGR and its loom 

Dave

[BigZed]

Hi Dave,

Heres an update on this.

I employed the services of an auto electrician, who pointed me in the direction of a failed / failing  ecu. However he did recommend changing out the MAF sensor first before embarking on the ecu issue, as cloning a second hand unit would be north of £200. 

It appears from the date code on the Bosch MAF sensor that this has already been replaced within the last 3 yrs, and swapping this out for a new one did not improve the situation, in the terrible running of the car, so I put the old one back in.

I bought an ECU and CAS unit and keys ( £40 off ebay) and was going to try this first. I removed my ECU to get the part # from it and left it out of the vehicle until the replacement arrived. 3 days later I had to plug it back in to move the car in preparation for the change out, and to my surprise. It fired up and after a cough and a splutter the motor ran smoothly and was responsive on the throttle, with no smoke, or hesitation.

I have tentatively taken it out multiple times on increasing distances and have now covered over 50 miles without any hesitation or smoking.

Still have these 2 fault these present and stored, so still requires further investigation, but at least its driveable..

40E9: exhaust gas recirculation control, position control

4B81: Exhaust gas recirculation rate control, control deviation

[Greydog]

Morning Paul

Try some good electrical contact cleaner at all connections. Before you start changing parts try talking to ECU Testing or Cartronix they both have  great reputations and offer a fast turn around if it is a dry joint in the ECU or similar that they can fix it will save changing the ECU and CAS with some of the issues that can raise

Good Luck

Dave