Hard start , no power rough engine

[Aaron19771977]

Hi all. I had a issue last night when the car started sounding like a tank when driving it and when stationary sounds rough, drove car home about 10 miles slow and took the car out today and when accelerate it would nearly
Stop it cut out and how it lost 99% power just got it home as was only a half a mile away and now it starts  after loads of attempts and sounds like it has no power and when I rev the car it cuts out, this is the new recent code today , no codes yesterday 3E91 crankshaft sensor signal - anyone know what this can be? I did have a spare crankshaft sensor that I tried and still the same issues unless that one was faulty from eBay ??

[Greydog]

More information needed here Aaron

What model is it E53, E70 , F15, F85, G05 is it Petrol or Diesel. How many miles has it covered ?

Where did you get the code, what Diagnostic Reader was used ?

A code is not always the cause sometimes it is a symptom of another fault. In your case the sensor could be the sensor can't match data with other sensors, Camshaft as an example cause of this could be timing chain related.

The fact you say the car was making a noise like a tank is a worry if it is timing chain related driving the car could have caused more damage.

Dave

[Aaron19771977]

Hi it’s a e70 n57 code on Carly , looked through camshaft sensor hole when I removed it and I can see camshaft turning when cranking 

[Greydog]

Hi Aaron

The cam may be turning but is it in time? Fingers crossed it is

I have never been a user of Carly so don't know how good/bad it is, with some of the other BMW Diagnostics you can check "Real Time Data" (I use iCarsoft or BMW ISTA) can you do the same with Carly? ISTA will let me see all sensors and control units, ignition on engine off (fully Charged Battery of course)

You should be able to check on Google for test procedure for the Sensors at least that way you are able to be sure they are working as they should that just needs a multi meter

Has the Turbo been checked ? Check the inter cooler and its pipework for oil, ideally there shouldn't be any in the intercooler. If there is oil then it could be a Turbo seal failure. Check oil levels, take off the turbo inlet hose and feel for any movement in the turbine with a finger. Any movement side to side or in and out is a no no

Has the fuel pressure been checked ? is the fuel rail pressure as it should be ? are all injectors seated and sealed correctly ? all glow plugs seated and sealed ? 

Just me thinking out loud a few of the things I would check

[Aaron19771977]

Hi, I’ve got ista, and was trying to check the fuel pressure pump but couldn’t find out how too, I check the rail pressure if that helps , 2.4 flicking to 0 bar on off cranking was 404bar

Battery is charging as well as very weak and now won’t turn car over 

[Aaron19771977]

[Greydog]

Morning Aaron

Good choice with ISTA it should really help, first step make sure the Battery is fully charged plus have a back up Battery charged or Booster pack handy (do not connect these direct to the battery only use the charge/jump points under the bonnet) Then carry out a full scan first ignition off then ignition on, 

First the engine reads many sensors (but two critical sensors) while cranking to confirm an engine start condition Camshaft and Crankshaft they need to synchronize. No signal from either one can result in long cranking or no start. Fuel rail pressure should be (from memory) about 8 bar, then when  cranking to run about 1800 bar 

So from what your showing you have low/no rail pressure and a pressure sensor fault, test or replace it. Your low cranking pressure hopefully is low battery. If not it could be High Pressure Fuel Pump or injectors

I hope you have a full copy of ISTA as that should also give you WIS (Workshop Information System) that will help with repairs

Dave

[Aaron19771977]

I had to buy a new battery as other one was going flat to quick 

I can’t get the car to start it cracks tho, so can’t get any injector readings 

but have some more readings from ista for you to shed some light on also I’m getting new codes now and clearing them then cranking the engine they come back , take a look see what you think , car try’s to start but doesn’t .. 

ps I’ve registered new battery with ista 

[Greydog]

Morning Aaron

Everyday is a school day 

So first clearing down faults does not fix them, that's what we are supposed to do. All clearing faults will do is get rid of spurious ones caused by low battery voltages or those that are no longer present (held in memory)

You seem to have an issue with Glow plugs and the Glow plug controller as it is only 2 glow plugs not all 6 normally it wouldn't stop the car starting particularly while the ambient temp is as it is. I would test the glow plugs and their wiring to the controller. If it cant be fixed that way then change all 6 and the controller. Be aware the car uses the Glow plugs as part of the temp control for Regeneration of the DPF, if they are not working it could effect Regen.

The other faults are with the IHKA (Climate Control) and the CIC (Radio, CD, Screen Display) Normally would not effect starting

Fuel pressure is still low so back to the drawing board I am afraid, have you checked tested the Crank shaft and Cam shaft sensors? Have you checked the fuel pressure sensor? Has the Turbo been checked ? When was the car last serviced ? When was the fuel filter last changed ?

Dave

[Aaron19771977]

Hi, thanks for that info , the dpf has been gutted and mapped out I’ve had the fan running on the front a lot when driving I’ve noticed after the dpf gut then fan didn’t run as loud all the time when driving the car, now I had the problem with car sounding very loud and now not starting , fuel filter changed last year, glow plugs error apart from the module one have always been there , when I cleaned the inlet manifold I replaced the flow plug module as I was in that area. Camshaft sensor was changed this year when I done the rocker cover , not checked the crankshaft sensor , how would I do this and does the starter motor need to be remove or maybe inlet manifold, should I replace the flow plug module first, so a faulty glow plug module would make the car sound like a tank when driving it and on acceleration cut out and then get worse and cause it to not run or start ?

thabks grey 

[Greydog]

Lets start again

(1) Glow plugs and Glow Plug controller should not prevent the car starting unless it is flipping freezing

(2) Fact, the engine management DDE needs information from several sensors and modules to allow the engine to start. It needs information from the gear selector inhibitor switch that the car is in P or N it needs information from the Cam sensor and Crank sensor it needs information from the Fuel pressure sensor Throttle position sensor and MAF these are the main ones

The car getting suddenly loud could be a fault with the exhaust or DPF it could be a blown hose on the intercooler or even a blown intercooler It could be a turbo charger problem.

When you have been changing parts (A) are they correct for your Model I would check www.realoem.com if you haven't get the correct part numbers for sensors and any other parts you need the google for the best source.

Realoem will also have small exploded diagrams which should help locate where stuff is you should also have all the information in ISTA WIS

The Crank Sensor is behind the starter so I hope it's not that as it is a really awkward job you have checked the Start Relay and Fuel pump Relays I guess

 

[Aaron19771977]

The parts were all the correct ones and checked with realoem , ok so it won’t be the glow plugs or module , can you tell me where the starter relay and fuel pump relays are please and be to checked them , also wouldn’t the  tests I done in ista on fuel rail confirm the pump is working 

Thanks 

[Aaron19771977]

Got the crank sensor off but How do I test this please , it wasn’t near the starter motor, was on other side of housing , it wasn’t to bad to get off but have to work blind 

[Aaron19771977]

Also when crank sensor is removed and trying to start car I’ve got same symptoms no new ones , does this point to it being a faulty crank  sensor?

[Greydog]

Aaron

Why are you starting the car or trying to with parts removed ??? As I said just Google test procedures and test the sensor rather than guessing 

The Fuel Pump relay is in the boot starter relay seems OK as you are cranking over

Dave

 

[Greydog]

Aaron

Reading your post you ask if the tests you have done with ISTA will show the fuel pump is working? The pressure your seeing seem to indicate that it is or at least the HPFP is good

So back to checking all the sensors and their wiring as some thing isn't sending the right signal 

You say things got loud and as said before that could have been Turbo related Exhaust related Intercooler related have you checked that Turbo to exhaust manifold clamp and connection is OK Turbo to DPF clamp and connection is OK Then the other side of the turbo the connections to the intercooler and then to the Inlet manifold

Dave

 

[Aaron19771977]

Engine was loud running back to my house about 30 min , left till morning started same problem engine loud like it had a bad misfire or like the air filter was off but wasn’t , then took for another 1 miles drive and all power went would accelerate drove at 10pm at most with no throttle response got home and struggles to start up and when press gas pedal it cuts out , now won’t start … current got the crank sensor off and I’m not sure if it’s work correctly as it did show a fault with that then once cleared hasn’t came back , it’s a 3 pin , on ohms  2k if I touch pin 1&2 on sensor I get a reading of .341 - pin1 nearest to sensor bolt pin2 next to pin1

pin 1 & 3 no reading 

pin 3 & 1 .761

can you shed some light on this, supposed to be picking up a new sensor for £90 at bmw today but still not sure if the sensor is faulty 

thanks 

[Greydog]

Morning Aaron

The 3 pins on the sensor one will be Earth one will be power (5v) and one will be the signal wire. You need to test the Wiring plug as well as a damaged loom will give the same symptoms as a dead sensor. From memory Earth will be Brown Power Blue Signal white or Green. Earth check continuity, Power Ign On you should see 12v Signal you need a good multi meter or oscilloscope (Check on line for test information)

We are back to noise, a failed sensor will inhibit/stop engine start it won't make it noisy. You say it was "loud like it had a bad misfire" "or like the Air filter was off" That would have me checking for any issues from the Turbo to the intercooler and Intercooler to Inlet manifold. A split hose or intercooler will give noise. Then there is the Turbo and its actuator that need checking. These are things that can cause rough running and Noise. 

Dave

 

 

[Aaron19771977]

Not check them parts yet, tried easy start today and car fired up then died 

[Greydog]

When it fired how did it sound Noisy? If fuel was there at a high enough pressure to atomise it should have kept running I would have thought 

[Aaron19771977]

I’m thinking injections it was very noisy

[Greydog]

Aaron

Stop guessing and looking for quick fixes start checking and testing 

Injectors can make a little noise (very small rattle) unless they are loose or the seals have gone. An injector needs fuel at the right pressure to work correctly and atomise the fuel.

Your back to finding the cause of the noise

Dave